Share the name of the manufacturer so we can buy from them! Great find!
Posted by: Vicki Smith at March 30, 2004 12:19 PMThat's a hoot!!! Good on 'em!!
Posted by: Janice at March 30, 2004 2:14 PMso what brand is it??
Posted by: stan at April 1, 2004 12:45 PMPlease, please tell us which company you got that from, so we can support their awesome contribution to society too.
Posted by: Mel at April 4, 2004 8:00 PMI have to agree with everyone else, we *must* know what company this was so that we can support them with our hard earned dollars!
-=kt=-
Posted by: ktpupp at April 4, 2004 8:59 PMwhat's the brand name?
-d
Maybe the cat was just hungry?
Posted by: bax at April 5, 2004 11:47 AMPlease let me know the mfg......
We need to support these people in their efforts to show that not all of us are "Ugly Americans"
http://tombihn.com/
Posted by: Cate at April 5, 2004 2:14 PMThis is freakin priceless!!
Posted by: Rachael at April 5, 2004 3:16 PMThat is absolutely fantastic!
Good thing the bags are "bombproof", given our illustrious leader's record...
Posted by: Jakob van Santen at April 5, 2004 3:54 PMI am assuming it is a Trager bag. They are fantastic and from the Pacific Northwest.
example:
http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/13291/11/photo
Posted by: Mark at April 5, 2004 4:33 PMHello?
Why didn't you tell us how to find this product?
Try to do it before we send Condoleeza over to the BBQ on Thursday, OK?
GB
Posted by: Stop The Liars at April 5, 2004 4:51 PMI am not particularly fond of French hypocrisy (any more than American-come on, feteing Robert Mugabe and hosting Mobuto Sese Seko :( )
But, this is hilarious.
Posted by: Brian Miller at April 5, 2004 4:57 PMThis is a company that should be punished in the marketplace.
Of course it is from the left coast.
Posted by: Phil at April 5, 2004 5:22 PMPhil, you are giving the rest of us Phil's a bad name.....
Get some Good Humor, or Howard's Love, or something, friend!
See you at the Gay Republicans Meeting?
xx
Phil in 'Delphia
Posted by: Philadelphia Phil at April 5, 2004 5:35 PMAnything that describes "president" Bush properly is all right by me.
Posted by: Jerry Brewton at April 5, 2004 7:24 PMAnything that describes "president" Bush properly is all right by me.
Posted by: Jerry Brewton at April 5, 2004 7:24 PMAnything that describes "president" Bush properly is all right by me.
Posted by: Jerry Brewton at April 5, 2004 7:24 PMI have a bag by Tom Bihn and I loved it before I read this post. Now I love it even more. Tom Bihn rocks. www.tombihn.com
Posted by: haiku at April 5, 2004 7:29 PMFABulous!!
Posted by: kitt at April 5, 2004 7:56 PMSeems to me the company which makes the bag are being cowardly. If they really feel that way, why not put it in English, too? And if they don't feel that way, they're pandering. Very typical of the left.
Posted by: Ole Eichhorn at April 5, 2004 8:01 PMSo, what happens when the president changes and we get a genius who can produce five words without an incorrect one and discuss his thoughts sensibly? Will the bagmaker still be insulting him?!
Also, could be they didn't like Clinton...except Clinton was full of lust, not an idiot. "Slick" Willie implies intelligence.
Posted by: Glenn Fleishman at April 5, 2004 8:32 PMCalling our president an idiot is immature and disrespectful. I don't care what your politics are, when did everyone in this country lose respect for the office of the president? To voice an opinion on the internet is fine, to put it in print on a company's label or to announce it at a Dixie Chix concert is just tasteless - especially in a time of war.
It disgusts me to hear how our senators and congressmen slam eachother and the president (republicans and democrats alike) in public.
Posted by: Doug Gordon at April 5, 2004 8:48 PMWell Doug, sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it? Isn't democracy great? We are just calling a spade a spade. Our current president, little shrub, is an idiot - a born again nearly fundamentalist idiot at that. We can have the utmost respect for the office of the president and still know, and enjoy calling him an idiot or whatever the hell we want. Think about that long and hard so it sets in. As for the french - what a bunch of ungrateful bastards. This UN debacle with Kofi and the boys and all their kick backs from Saddam should shame the hell out of them!
Posted by: wisdom at April 5, 2004 9:02 PMDoug Gordon: 1) A good many people in this country lost respect for the office of the president when he was appointed by the supreme court. Most of the rest lost respect for the office of the president after he had various kinds of sexual contact with an intern. Regardless, the label doesn't say "Sorry the president is always an idiot" but that the current president, as a person, is an idiot. 2) Voicing an opinion in any form is fine; is one of the fundamental freedoms of this country and of humanity; the internet has been around for about 40 years and you seem to suggest that before it existed there was no tasteful place to express an opinion. 3) "Especially in a time of war"?!? Give me a break. The tasteless thing is that the president-person tricked congress into sending our citizens to die, and tricked others countries into sending their citizens to die.
I encourage you to express your opinion: it's just that it's a stupid opinion.
First - I celebrate freedom of speech and that's just one of many things that make this a great country.
Second - calling someone a "shrub" and attacking his religion is a poor way of arguing politics. Stick to the issues - take the high road!
I do agree the OFFICE of the president has been degraded over the years (Nixon/Clinton, etc.), and that is a shame. Our political process seems to be rewarding the name-calling and sleaze. I think it's just more 'dumbing down' that seems to appeal to someone (TV? Tabloids? Who actually responds to this crap?)
In short - politicians suck - both sides of the aisle.
I'm fully aware that the internet has been around for a long time - when did Gore invent it again?
"I encourage you to express your opinion: it's just that it's a stupid opinion"? Why more attacks on me personally?????
Posted by: Doug Gordon at April 5, 2004 9:42 PMthats right bush is a dumbass... with all his famous idiotic lines... I LOVE THAT TAG
Posted by: julie at April 5, 2004 9:42 PMIt really is funny when the pinkos come out in full force. I for one am proud to be a Christian. I happen to know what that means too-its more than a punchline. Go ahead and bash Bush-call him names, whatever you want. Oh, before I go-did you graduate from Harvard? Also, did any of you commies graduate from Harvard AND Yale? I am sure you'll give me something about his family getting him through and junk which is a bunch of hogwash. He went to the classes, got the diplomas and anyone who can get diplomas there can't be the "idiot" you pinko commie losers claim him to be. He knows exactly what he is doing. Oh and by the way, if you don't like the tax cuts, send me the money-I'm sure I know how to spend your money better than you do since you are certified wackos.
Posted by: The REAL Phil at April 5, 2004 11:10 PMWhat a treasonous, America hating bunch of fools y'all are. Scum has a higher IQ than you idiots.
Posted by: john at April 5, 2004 11:26 PMOh, I love it when the so-called Right gets righteous. It's always so poetic, in an ugly way.
Go back to listening to Rush, you stupid trolls.
Posted by: dumas librul at April 5, 2004 11:54 PMI wonder about these individuals who seem to support bush...
Perhaps the man did go through harvard and yale. so what? good on him.
fact of the matter is that this man, and those who instruct him, were the ones to push the usa into invading iraq. thousands of people died because of this man and those who instructed him. why?
ask yourself that question.
and don't believe the simple answers. investigate for yourself why this man, after september 11, decided to invade the worlds 2nd largest oil producing country in the world, when the person responsible for leading the september 11 attack was over in the hills of another country?
very strange that fact.
but most people in the usa seem to be able to talk their way around that one.
very strange indeed.
"home of the free"
so they say.
glad I don't live there.... I am amazed how "free" the people of the usa believe they are when their government tracks everything they do and say... big brother is watching you...
enjoy your freedom and new found status of most hated country.
a canadian
Posted by: jonas at April 5, 2004 11:57 PMHey REAL Phil, if you want to talk about communism, let's take a look at our country today shall we?
"Homeland Security" can enter your home with no probable cause, tap your phone line and install hidden cameras to moniter your every move without you being aware. The Goverment can now tell you whom you can and cannot marry. The FCC is regulating what we can and cannot hear on the radio as well as TV. In Georgia women can be put in prison for body piercings. There was a book written about this new era we live in called "1984", he missed the title by 20 years.
The only way Bush could be more Un-American would be if his name was Mao and he was Chinese. In fact I hear the morticians who keep Lenin's body on display in Moscow has not been able to get the grin off his corpse since Bush stole office.
Phil you are the biggest "pinko" of all because you support the loss of our freedoms and the destruction of the American way of life. I am sure all of our Forefathers are turning over in their graves as we speak.
Posted by: Dagulf at April 6, 2004 12:12 AMI like the picture. Good find!
Love him or hate him, you gotta admit that Mr. Bush does not act as if he understands the complex issues which face the nation. Like terrorism. C'mon. Fighting terrorists with a military invasion is like trying to kill a bee by shooting its beehive with a shotgun.
Posted by: Warren at April 6, 2004 1:15 AMHello,
thank you for sharing it with us ;-)
It is hilarious !
I hope you won't mind, but I put the picture on my web site (http://www.palmbavardages.net/article.php?article=42) -- it is in French, with a link back to you ;-)
If you do mind, I will take the picture back of course.
Thanks again,
David
Hi all,
first of all, I am pretty happy that a lot of you americans seem to start thinking at last.
In the last couple of months, I was afraid that the USA is running amok and I couldnt help myself think of Starship Troopers...
But now I have hope that Us residents see that Hollywood is NOT real life (well at least the residents do, not their politicians).
In 50 years or so, everyone in the whole wide world will shake his head when remembering George Bush and his gang and what they have done to global history...after a lot of horror being done by wars in the last century, you could think that the human race should have learned at least a bit.... but then...the former rescue from evil has changed sides and is attacking a country with high tech weaponry where the opposition has almost nothing... Bombing cottages where people lived and who had never heard of USA at all.... killed ....
Boy oh Boy.... what happened to the USA ?
A german...
I wouldn't say Bush is an idiot as i don't know him.
But sure that the way his chose for American foreign policy is... special...
Renaud, proud to be French
I just want to point out that we frenchies didn't vote for our president that much, either. Or at least not eagerly. :/
Nevertheless, the picture is fun. Thanks for sharing. :)
Posted by: Pierre at April 6, 2004 2:33 AMI think it is a Waterfield Sleeve case (www.sfbags.com).
Posted by: rik at April 6, 2004 2:34 AMJe leur commande un sac tout de suite ! :)
Thats nice, maybe theres still hope left for the USA. But as we can see, there are still enough brainless idiots who would follow ANY leader, even it was mr.dumbinator xD
Posted by: b0b at April 6, 2004 3:41 AMnow that i am reading the comments, i gotta say: USA SUCKS!! GET BRAINS !! YOU WERENT EVEN ON THE MOON, SO _WHATS_ LEFT TO BE PROUD OF ??
Posted by: b0b at April 6, 2004 3:43 AMWhy do republicans hate America?
Posted by: Shane at April 6, 2004 3:50 AMralf
Why is it only the US that's running amok? 'Real life' can be seen in the Getty images of strung-up charred corpses in Fallujah. Liberal silence on this issue is complicity with the crime. 'Hollywood' is mass media in general, as evidenced by your foul literary references. If those deaths in Fallujah were meaningless, or the deaths of Israelis, as well as but NOT ONLY Palestinian, you should give up your worldly possessions and move to India.
okay Jonas,
name the thousands who died. you have no understanding of numbers unless you can count to a thousand without a break. where are you getting these 'facts'? and remember, your entire arguing position rests on 'facts' you cannot verify. this is what is called a 'castle made of sand'.
I love how, when confronted by truth in an argument, right wingers inevitably succumb to "If you don't like this country move to Iraq/India/Cuba, you cheese eating surrender monkey!"
Frankly, I'd rather stay right here and take my country back from you who have done so much to degrade her and destroy her.
Yes, our president is an idiot, and we stupid Americans sat back and let him steal an election and bankrupt the nation, both financially and morally.
But hey! Don't forget to duct tape a flag to your SUV while you delude yourselves that we're still a free country!
Believe it or not, there are a more than a few Americans who are just as horrified as the rest of the world at what arrogant bullies our government has become. If more people understood that, maybe we wouldn't have to pretend we're Canadian when we travel overseas.
What liberal silence, Robert? Sounds like a fact you cannot verify.
Posted by: Shane at April 6, 2004 4:48 AMRobert
What are you talking bout ? I never said that any death is meaningless...?!??!?
The problem I see is that a civilized country such as the United States of America wants to be, tries to solve problems in a more intelligent way then just show off their powers and military strength.
the people in Iraq have suffered a long time and as hard as it may sound, they just dont know what they are doing as they are led by fanatics..and they never had a chance to make up their own thoughts...
Imho, US is acting a little triggerhappy and has to face the consequences, and what I meant by "Hollywood" style is that a lot of young americans join the army as it sounds cool to carry a gun and be the smart soldier boy and once they wake up they find themselves in Afghanistan, Iraq and wherever in the world there is the need of a supersoldier that saves the day... I think that is what people think when joining the troops, as if it was a honor to march into war and as we can see from a lot of reports, these young guys and girls get ill and homesick becuase the truth is not quite as beautiful as they were told....
Jane,
when I was young, everything american was hip cool and fresh and a lot of american ways that swapped over to Europe was part of the walk of life for a lot of youngsters here.
Coke, Television, Clothes, american movies american superstars where idols for us here in europe... no matter what was impotred from US, it was cooler than what was produced here...
Sad to say that this has changed a lot in the past few months / years... Somehow the US of A have changed from a real free country with endless possibilities to something ummmm.... ummm... lets say: different and this scares a lot of people...
But as long as I can read posts like yours, I still have hope that the real americans like I got to learn them, really take back their country and show the "others" how they really feel...
Anybody considered the possibility that the text actually refers to the French president?
Posted by: Rupert at April 6, 2004 5:40 AMIt is great that in America we have the freedom to say what we want without fear of repurcussion.
It is cowardly to issue that statment like that in a foreign language.
Want to be an agent of change? Say it out loud, believe in your message. Thomas Jefferson and Dr. King never hid their thoughts, why is Tom Bihn hiding his message? Is it to be witty? Is there a more sinister agenda. I find it sad that someone chooses to depreciate their country in that way.
He has the right to say it. I just question why he would want to.
Posted by: Adam at April 6, 2004 5:55 AMCanada, the 51st state.
Posted by: haha at April 6, 2004 5:57 AMAll conservatives suck.
Liberals have the open minds.
We'll say whatever we want, no matter who it hurts.
We'll march in our Birkenstocks.
We'll hug the trees.
We'll tax those who actually make the money.
Lets give everything to those who don't earn it.
Everyone is entitled to something.
Posted by: liberalpride at April 6, 2004 6:00 AMYes you people are right. Why go over there and fight these people. I mean we should send our law enforcement. It worked so well in the past.
Wait no it did not. The definition of Retardation is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Your hero, Richard Clarke said in 1999, they saw how we handled the first World Trade Center bombing, we caught most of them. They are shaking in their shoes, really shaking in their shoes. Somalia, Cole, OK city(which Clarke said he could tie to Al Quada as well). If this is shaking in their shoes, my goodness, I hate to see not shaking in their shoes.
Oh and by the way people, a non-partisan recount of the Florida Election votes still gave Bush the win in Florida. If you are too dumb to understand this, there may be no help for you at all. Or the fact that the Florida Supreme Court violated Florida Election law by asking only a certain segment of the population's votes to be recounted. In effect, trying to steal the election, yet somehow you people have turned this around. Such idiocy, from people who think they are so smart. tsk tsk.
Posted by: James Stephenson at April 6, 2004 6:17 AMGreat - fantastic. What an awesome tag. I'm going to have to buy something from them out of respect.
x
Posted by: mick at April 6, 2004 6:18 AMReally fantastic !
So belgian people are sure that all amercicans aren't like that'idiot son of a hashole'...
Just like all belgian aren't paedophiles...
Keep fighting, my friends
Nico
Posted by: Nico at April 6, 2004 6:21 AMBravery, thy name is printing in a foreign language on the laundry instruction tag of a computer bag.
Posted by: Brian Perry at April 6, 2004 6:21 AMIgnorance is when you do not know anything beyond what you have been told and you believed it at face value without researching beyond that. Combine that with seeking out your ignorant opinion with other ignorant opinions and you come to a conclusion that this is a fact.
The sad part is that the rest of the world is laughing because the ignorance is still coming from the Americans and that gets extended in to voting for the President and Congress.
"But I didn't vote for Bush", you will cry.
No, but you are still sheep pandering to the Plutocracy by electing the Congress that is more well off and more rich than 98% of the people they are supposed to represent, and you still think that either Bush or Kerry are viable choices.
No one yet has expressed their outrage on the real issues beyond their hatred for Kerry/Bush, and again, that is as American, ain't it? To find a tag on some clothing that says that "hey, we didn't pick our President" and get a circle jerk going with chuckles and how funny it is. None of you will make a difference in America, perhaps these little shots at Bush is an acknowledgement of your incompetence and perhaps this will give you some joy while knowing your impotence.
Perhaps our children will be a little more serious and more determined to change back our government in a form it was first created, by the people and for the people.
Until then, have fun shooting your wads at silly tags.
Posted by: Ethics at April 6, 2004 6:22 AMWell said Ethics
Posted by: Adam at April 6, 2004 6:34 AMGoddamn that's funny stuff
Posted by: Shawn Liu at April 6, 2004 6:35 AM"Calling our president an idiot is immature and disrespectful."
No, it's being accurate. "Disrespectful" is rigging an election:
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/florida.htm
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/main.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/palast.ram
It's good to see a company spending their tax cuts on something to increase their business. You sure know your market guys!
Bush will be proud.
I laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair...! Its about time the rest of the world realized we don't all go along with current American foreign policy and that given a choice, we will work for regime change where it matters most.
Posted by: Raul at April 6, 2004 7:03 AMUmmm... Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why any of you pro-bush, war supporting people are willing to disrespect one of the very freedoms (speech) that your president is trying to "give" the Iraqis people?
If you support him, you support the ideal that he went to war on and it would seem to me, you'd have learned that people and companies can say whatever the hell they want. Whether it's good or bad against bush.
Anyone who goes around harping on be "respectful" of the office etc. needs a lesson in democracy. It pains me that many of bush's so called supporters, are clearly not even as intelligent as he is. I'm more scared of Americans than America.
Posted by: David at April 6, 2004 7:12 AMWhat a wonderful whine party. It is truly inspiring to read so much infantile pretense at grown up commentary. Never have so many said so much over nothing. But, it is hard to let go from the frat house intellectual banter over cheap beer dirty socks.
Posted by: German at April 6, 2004 7:14 AMwow, look at the left-wing kooks coming out of the woodwork. I'm also not surprised at the eurotrash here too - couldn't get enough of your monolithic, stalinist left-wing media at home, so you decided to come here for some bush-bashing as well? I mean, you eurotrash do nothing but call bush a fascist all day, every day; meanwhile, back in zeropa, you idiots ELECT fascists to office (case in point: the National Front in France). it's pretty funny - you left-wing morons have more in common with rush limbaugh or sean hannity than you think - rush and co. say that liberals are evil and conservatives are good, while you kooks say the same thing, only vice versa. man, i pity the u.s. for having such fools with stubborn minds unable to consider the other side's point of view. god help us all for having to suffer such close-minded idiots.
Posted by: firebrand at April 6, 2004 7:15 AMTom Bihn links to Robert Fisk on his website in his "about us" section.
'nuff said
Posted by: A.Reader at April 6, 2004 7:18 AMOh, gosh, that is sooooo cool! Please don't hate us French people, it hurts my tummy when Canadians and Europeans hate us. It makes me want to throw up. I am so sad that French hate us. I have gone into debt buying French products to show my support for the French. I'm thinking of renouncing my american citizenship and mutilating myself to show my support of the French - I'm just waiting for a French person to tell me if that's what they want me to do. Because I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to be loved by the French.
Posted by: bedwetter at April 6, 2004 7:20 AMWhy doesn't the tag say: "Sorry our last president was such an idiot, but he was too busy receiving blow jobs under his desk to deal with the terrorists that were killing Americans."
Posted by: birkenstock wearing conservative at April 6, 2004 7:31 AMCan cbrown (or anyone that knows with certainty) let me know who is the manufacturer of the bag (if is real). I want this to be a gift for some friends in Switzerland.
Posted by: George at April 6, 2004 7:33 AMActually, Bill Clinton was NOT too busy with BJs to battle terrorists. Apparently, it made him highly effective.
Posted by: Glenn Fleishman at April 6, 2004 7:40 AMPresident Bush is no idiot.
After the attacks of 9-11, he went after the Taliban and prevented Al Qaeda from going after us again.
People disagree strongly about invading Iraq. It was a bold gamble for President Bush. If we can establish democracy in Iraq, then the Middle East may turn away from dictatorship. When the Berlin wall was breached in 1989, many countries in Eastern Europe were finally able to turn from Communist dictatorship to democracy.
President Bush's gamble may fail. But it is a smart, brave choice, a calculated risk.
Posted by: Matthew at April 6, 2004 7:49 AMBetter foreign policy would have been to allow the International Community to continue it's deception with the UN/Saddam Oil-for-Food kickback scam.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraq people died and millions suffered all to benefit the loving people of France and Russia and a few other righteous members of the beloved International Community. These countries did everything they could to protect their OIL, please continue to support their efforts.
Let's not forget George Galloway's involvement in aiding Saddam's brutal oppression and how much money he made in the process. All hail King George and the madness of the United Nations.
Billions made on the backs of the dead. How glorious the triumph!
I always thought the United Nations was designed to defend the oppressed not aid in oppressing the oppressed while lining the pockets of their righteous pants?
Show your support, buy as many pants as you can.
Posted by: UNlover at April 6, 2004 7:53 AM
The brainwashed ditto monkeys are out in force.
"Or the fact that the Florida Supreme Court violated Florida Election law by asking only a certain segment of the population's votes to be recounted."
This is a lie. The Court ruled according to state law and ordered a state wide recount. Only under the most restrictive recounts did Bush "win" Fla. in the so-called recount run by the news paper consortium in late 2001. Over a hundred thousand votes have never been counted in any way.
Oh and those people the bushies illegally scrubbed from the voter roles and were ordered to re-instate in 2002? It hasn't been done yet.
The only thing sadder than the sociopaths in power are their supporters made mush-brained by a steady diet of winger propaganda meisters like Hannity and Limbaugh.
I am shamed to share the same country with these fools.
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 8:00 AMSee, its only us America-loving Repbulicans who are willing to defend it. Why do you think a MAJORITY of our military soldiers and officers are Republican when only 35% of the country registers as Republican? Republicans see no dishonor in serving in the world's finest military-fighting terrorism and thugs all over the world. I'm definitely not saying you shouldn't be allowed to protest-you can say what you want. However just because you CAN say something doesn't make it right. I agree that Bush is no Reagan-Reagan was the greatest world leader since WWII, but Bush at least has a spine, has convictions, and believes in God. It's too bad you commies and Europeans don't take a page out of his book-say THANK YOU to America for making the world safer and be on your way.
Posted by: The Real Phil at April 6, 2004 8:06 AM"pinko commie losers..."
Ahahaha.... I love this guy, seriously. Haven't laughed that hard since "They misunderestimated me." Go back to the Cold War era, buddy. Someone might respect your opinion there.
Posted by: c at April 6, 2004 8:13 AM"It's too bad you commies and Europeans don't take a page out of his book-say THANK YOU to America for making the world safer and be on your way."
Maybe we would if America actually had made the world safer. Please inform us as to how America has made the world safer? Does de-stabilizing the middle east help?
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 8:16 AMBig man standing up for his convictions by hiding it in another language on the care instructions of a tag.
If he had any guts he'd print his message in bold on the outside of the bag. Then we could see how many of the activists would actually buy it. Not many I'd guess.
Its really easy to be reactionary and talk big over the Internet. How many people actually live by their beliefs and stand up to protest what they feel? Yeah I though so.
Posted by: Bihn(laden) sucks at April 6, 2004 8:18 AM> Big man standing up for his convictions by hiding
Kettle, meet pot. :-)
Posted by: Francois at April 6, 2004 8:23 AMMore lies, adopted as fact by the brainwashed, how sad for America and the world.
"After the attacks of 9-11, he went after the Taliban and prevented Al Qaeda from going after us again."
Bzzzzzzzzzzzt! Wrong!
washingtonpost.com
U.S. Concludes Bin Laden Escaped at Tora Bora Fight
Failure to Send Troops in Pursuit Termed Major Error
By Barton Gellman and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 17, 2002; Page A01
The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.
Intelligence officials have assembled what they believe to be decisive evidence, from contemporary and subsequent interrogations and intercepted communications, that bin Laden began the battle of Tora Bora inside the cave complex along Afghanistan's mountainous eastern border. Though there remains a remote chance that he died there, the intelligence community is persuaded that bin Laden slipped away in the first 10 days of December.
After-action reviews, conducted privately inside and outside the military chain of command, describe the episode as a significant defeat for the United States. A common view among those interviewed outside the U.S. Central Command is that Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks, the war's operational commander, misjudged the interests of putative Afghan allies and let pass the best chance to capture or kill al Qaeda's leader. Without professing second thoughts about Tora Bora, Franks has changed his approach fundamentally in subsequent battles, using Americans on the ground as first-line combat units.
In the fight for Tora Bora, corrupt local militias did not live up to promises to seal off the mountain redoubt, and some colluded in the escape of fleeing al Qaeda fighters. Franks did not perceive the setbacks soon enough, some officials said, because he ran the war from Tampa with no commander on the scene above the rank of lieutenant colonel. The first Americans did not arrive until three days into the fighting. "No one had the big picture," one defense official said.
The Bush administration has never acknowledged that bin Laden slipped through the cordon ostensibly placed around Tora Bora as U.S. aircraft began bombing on Nov. 30. Until now it was not known publicly whether the al Qaeda leader was present on the battlefield.
Now watch the conseronazi call the WP a Stalinist Librul Media mouthpiece. Hhahahahahha
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 8:26 AM"People disagree strongly about invading Iraq. It was a bold gamble for President Bush. If we can establish democracy in Iraq, then the Middle East may turn away from dictatorship. When the Berlin wall was breached in 1989, many countries in Eastern Europe were finally able to turn from Communist dictatorship to democracy."
I thought we were there to destroy an imminent threat?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html
Notice how the word democracy doesn't appear once in that speach.
Posted by: fatz at April 6, 2004 8:34 AMHAHAHAH all this makes me laugh.
bedwetter, i'm french and i don't hate you, for sure Bush scares me, but it's evident that not all the americans agree with his politic.
firebrand, we didn't elect any "front national" people, they exists and some people vote for them (you know there are other democracies than the USofA) i feel ashamed for this but fortunately they didn't rule anything here. i presume that you have some sort of fascist group in the US too, and maybe (even if they're not elected) their lobbying have more weight than what the front national is able to do here in France.
i can't explain with more details efficiently, because my english knowledge is a bit light to sustain a polemic.
I like this tag a lot, it's not a concern of being a coward or anything, it's a way to communicate a message (and with a good sense of humor), for me it's cool to see that not all americans think that we (french) are at 1 hair from being a proud member of the axis of evil.
"If he had any guts he'd print his message in bold on the outside of the bag. Then we could see how many of the activists would actually buy it. Not many I'd guess."
How many people would buy this message in bold print on the outside of a garment? About 2500, at last count. Most with the English translation as well as the French.
Posted by: Joel Aufrecht at April 6, 2004 8:56 AMyeah, right, bush invaded iraq to fight against the al quaeda.
too bad most people forget about the time when saddam fought the ayatollah chomeini in iran, one of the most fundamentalistic countries in the middle east.
yeah, it even makes more sense that iraq supported fundamentalistic terrorists from iran or afghanistan, if you know the last POW from iran were released a few days before the war started. sounds like real friends, releasing POW after about 10 years :)
and sure, its clintons fault the planes crashed into the WTC on 9/11. its always the fault of the last government, never of the present.
doesn't matter at all, opinions are like assholes: everybody got one, and its very hard to change.
TabulaRasa, from germany
You may love the tag, but it will never get read -- since when have the French washed anything?
What are they trying to do? Radicalize Snuggles the laundry bear?
PS If you are trying to sway minds, think a little bigger than a laundry tag. In French. At a font size of 8 pt. Bush must be quaking... ;-)
Posted by: Tim at April 6, 2004 9:03 AM"i presume that you have some sort of fascist group in the US too"
Yes. We call them "Republicans".
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 9:04 AM"since when have the French washed anything?"
Tim you've been to a special humour high school to be so funny ?
Matthew -
Adolf Hitler was no idiot.
People disagree strongly about invading Poland. It was a bold gamble for Hitler...
Hitler's gamble may have failed. But it was a smart, brave choice, a calculated risk.
Remember, he had many supporters as well, even after the war.
Jane--loved your comments, especially:
..."But hey! Don't forget to duct tape a flag to your SUV while you delude yourselves that we're still a free country!"
Well done!
"when did everyone in this country lose respect for the office of the president?"
Hmm... *Deep breath...*
Hiroshima. Nagasaki. Vietnam. Watergate. Watergate II. Monicagate. Trickle-down Economics. Star Wars. Noriega. Iran-Contra. The Gulf War. The Second Gulf War. Creating Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Osama bin Laden to fight "The Communist Threat." Installing Ba'ath Party in Iraq in 1965, and funding Saddam Hussein's weapons development programs. Rejecting the Kyoto Treaty. Re-introducing Star Wars. Beginning production of smart mines against national treaty. Shall I continue?
"See, its only us America-loving Repbulicans who are willing to defend it. Why do you think a MAJORITY of our military soldiers and officers are Republican when only 35% of the country registers as Republican?"
I spent 3 years in the U.S. Army, and I would rather lose an arm than vote Republican.
But I think I may know why there are so many Republicans in the military. When I was in basic training, the drill sergeants would always yell the same thing at us every time someone said the word think; "Think! You thought! You're not paid to think. You're paid to execute." That explains a lot.
Did it occur to anyone that maybe the tag is just a joke or not even real?
I agree fully that Jacques Chirac is an idiot!
Posted by: Frenchman at April 6, 2004 10:08 AM"when did everyone in this country lose respect for the office of the president?"
I'll bet a month's salary that the person who said this thinks nothing of bashing Clinton and his penis in every political discussion.
Sorry... they were all my Presidents, and when they goof up (especially in the monumental scale as our current one does so well) I'll be right there to bash 'em.
Posted by: -=e=- at April 6, 2004 10:09 AMAnd why do you think that comment is not made by a french refering their president (Chirac)?
Posted by: estraviz at April 6, 2004 10:11 AMAh, justice triumphs again!
Posted by: Camilo at April 6, 2004 10:15 AMGotta get one of these bags, no matter what they are for. Gonna buy some and send 'em to France.
Posted by: Sue at April 6, 2004 10:25 AMThe liberals have so much hate for their own country. It is so apparent in the comments at this site. The label is a perfect example.
Posted by: Sue at April 6, 2004 10:40 AMThank you "frenchman." I agree that Chirac is an idiot! The jeans could clearly have been made in France....we french feel as strongly against our president as the liberals in the US feel about Bush.
Posted by: Sue J at April 6, 2004 10:44 AM"The liberals have so much hate for their own country. It is so apparent in the comments at this site. The label is a perfect example."
How do you figure? I think the label is just supposed to be a light-hearted joke.
Posted by: getoverit at April 6, 2004 10:50 AMAwesome, awesome.
Posted by: CZ at April 6, 2004 10:50 AMsic transit gloria americanus
Posted by: FKN at April 6, 2004 10:58 AMInteresting how this cowardly smear, if aimed at GWB, is written in the native language of cowards: French!
And I'm not suggesting that the person shouldn't be allowed to say it.
Posted by: Mike at April 6, 2004 11:05 AMI thought that Republicans had a sense of humor. How wrong I was...
Posted by: getoverit at April 6, 2004 11:07 AMThis made my day. Thank you so much.
Posted by: Gilberto Creque at April 6, 2004 11:07 AMCome on, the fact that 99% (the others are idiots themselves)know exactly who this refers to has to tell you something about the validity of the statement.
Posted by: John at April 6, 2004 11:11 AM"I agree that Bush is no Reagan-Reagan was the greatest world leader since WWII, but Bush at least has a spine, has convictions, and believes in God."
--
So where comes the good part? Just having convictions doesn't mean that your convictions are right, which ofcourse is subjective.
For the God part, I really cannot see why politics should have anything to do with religion. In America, where you are free to believe (or not believe) in anything you want, including religious stuff, it's rather contradictive that you really can't become a president if you don't admit yourself to Christianity.
Posted by: marty at April 6, 2004 11:13 AM"Posted by: Sue at April 6, 2004 10:25 AM
The liberals have so much hate for their own country. It is so apparent in the comments at this site. The label is a perfect example."
No, I don't hate this country, I just hate Bush and I hate YOU and I hate other fools who know absolutely nothing about the very principles this country was founded upon.
Last time I checked the dictionary, the US constitution, logic, and common sense, George Bush is not synonymous with the United States of America. YOU are not synonymous with the USA.
If you think George Bush IS ACTUALLY THE SAME THING AS the United States, then you have a poor grasp of the English language or you are completely insane.
Priceless =)
glad to not all americans are morons.
to bad most of them still seem to be :(
see
Posted by: jonte at April 6, 2004 12:01 PM"Interesting how this cowardly smear, if aimed at GWB, is written in the native language of cowards: French!"
mike this is the finest sentence of the whole thread. And the competition was rude with Tim ("since when have the French washed anything?") in the place.
Posted by: boris (from france) at April 6, 2004 12:01 PMDon't you love it how, if you don't agree with everything a winger says and fall in goosestepping in line with their belief structure, daring to openly practice your 1st amendment rights to free speech then that automatically equates to "hating your country" Grow up. It's our country too.
Posted by: witchy at April 6, 2004 12:04 PMI just hope that all the liberals out there can band together to make a regime change at home. Even if you don't like Kerry all that much. Who cares, he's 1000% better than the alternative.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946)
"Those who criticize the administration are aiding and giving comfort to the enemy" - John Ashcroft
"How dare Senator Daschle criticize President Bush while we are fighting our war on terrorism, especially when we have troops in the field?" - Trent Lott (R)
(Daschle's)"divisive comments have the effect of giving aid and comfort to our enemies by allowing them to exploit divisions in our country." - Rep. Tom Davis, R-VA
"Your tactics only aid terrorists -- for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends" - John Ashcroft
Posted by: corwin at April 6, 2004 12:06 PMHere's a quote from a "real" American.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public
- Theodore Roosevelt -
mabye it's france sending it to USA?
Posted by: yoman at April 6, 2004 12:13 PMNuke you.
Posted by: PeeO'd at April 6, 2004 12:20 PMNuke you all.
Posted by: PeeO'd at April 6, 2004 12:21 PM"And why do you think that comment is not made by a french refering their president (Chirac)?"
Because the comment would be in ENGLISH. Besides, why would the French have to apologize to the US for *their* president?
"The liberals have so much hate for their own country. It is so apparent in the comments at this site. The label is a perfect example."
Someone explain to me why trying to rescue America from the Constitution-shredding, treaty-shattering, corporation-pandering, environment-trashing, war-mongering chickenhawk fundamentalist religious nuts who have seized control of it means we "hate America".
No, as a matter of fact, we love this country enough that we aren't going to let idiots like you give it away. You, on the other hand, would turn a blind eye to the raping and pillaging of all that represents America without a thought. To me, that makes YOU the unAmerican here.
I wish I had an answer to why most Americans simply aren't paying attention to what's happening in this country. Maybe they are too busy trying to find work, or trying to keep their rent paid, or never think to look outside corporate-owned media for their news, or maybe they've had too many years of public-school indoctrination which has taught them to eat what they are spoon-fed without question. Maybe they have been whipped up into a frenzy of fear by their own government, so that they meekly surrender without a whimper when told what to do and who to hate.
Maybe it's all of these things.
But hey! How about that Local Sports Team?
Posted by: jane at April 6, 2004 12:24 PMBoris,
I see, so my comment can not be construed as a joke, where as the comment on the tag is funny!
So a generalization about France is bad while a generalization about the U.S. President is funny.
Posted by: mike at April 6, 2004 12:24 PMWhat really bothers me is how throughout this presidency, the administration can never admit to any wrong doing or mistakes. I find it hard to believe these people when all they do is character bash their opponents, many of whom were former appointees. No one is perfect, but Bush et al won't admit to any mistakes.
Politicians in general in the US don't run on specific issues but instead along party lines. That's the problem! Those who pay for your campaign dictate what your policies are, not the specific problems that need addressing.
America needs to check itself. The fact that Bush said it was every Iraqi's right to have an education and healthcare is great and all, but then shouldn't it be every American's right too?
Both sides are guilty of political bs, but the Republicans are just too deceptive. Sure Bush lowered your Federal taxes, but then State taxes just skyrocketed. But the Republicans won't tell you that. I thought not telling the whole truth was lying.
US political strategy is so like that. Tell them the good stuff and leave out the bad. What a crock! Let's get the whole picture people. So many Republicans are just too quick to say, "But Bush lowered our taxes". Sure he did, but we went from the biggest economic growth in the history of our country, to the biggest defecit, inflation, decreased dollar value, etc. in the history of our country. When we're facing a huge deficit, when social security is going to go bankrupt, when poeople are starving homeless in the streets, sometimes we need taxes pay for these things.
Americans are lazy and won't research the issues themselves. Instead they'll believe a soundbite just because it came from the President. That's the problem. Educate yourselves and look beyond the headline!
I love when you tell people that SUV's are bad for the environment and they counter with, "Well it's my American right to own one."
Nice one!!!! Your American rights transcend any environmental consequences that might come up.
Off the subject but patriotic flag wavers suck. Patriotic do gooders rock!!!!!!
Recently I've been ashamed to call myself american when my country was taken away from me.
Posted by: Ralphie at April 6, 2004 12:29 PMA man like Abraham Lincoln could never be president today. No one who grew up poor in a log cabin would even get the time of day from any political party. You gotta be rich and play the game of working in the favor of your supporters, not of the people.
Deficit problems, social security going bankrupt, people without food, education and healthcare, the environment being destroyed and what do the Republicans focus on???? Star Wars (which won't prevent any kind of handheld device or plane crashing into a building), trying to pass an ammendment banning gay marriage(Whose business is it anyways???? How does it affect you?) and getting Iraq to be a democracy.
Nice priorities!!!!
Posted by: whoa at April 6, 2004 12:34 PMBUSH is an idiot regardless of where his dad paid to get him in. Here's proof!
>>"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
>>>>- George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
>>>>- George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and
that
>>>>one word is 'to be prepared'."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments
in the
>>future."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"The future will be better tomorrow."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"We're going to have the best educated American people in the
world."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a
firm
>>commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Public speaking is very easy."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the
>>>>polls."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our
>>>>children."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the
impurities
>>>>in our air and water that are doing it."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
>>>>- Governor George W. Bush
My favorite is when conservatives who theoretically value business and commerce, trash someone for making an astute marketing move. Of course, it's not in english. It was addressed to their french customers.
Posted by: colin at April 6, 2004 12:41 PMWho said this bag is made in the USA? Maybe it was made in France or Canada! If all of you Bush bashers believe what you say then this bag was probably made in China!
Posted by: Kevin at April 6, 2004 12:44 PMKevin, your comment is the perfect example of the quote I posted above. BTW, you do know who Hermann Goering was don't you. Hitler called people who didn't support him unpatriotic too.
Posted by: corwin at April 6, 2004 12:50 PMThis label is GREAT!
Especially [as I read it] they're talking about Chirac.
I wonder how many of the genius contributers here could land a jet fighter under the hood. I wonder how many could even get past the first chapter of the flight manual.
Most of this group must be rejects from the 9-11 committee. When Dr. Rice enters the hearing room, the I.Q. average in the room will double. If she entered this page, it would triple.
It is no coincidence that Democrat and Dungbeatle both begin with "D".
Tangential political diatribes aside (sigh) that's a great picture. Thanks for sharing.
Why is everyone assuming the label's about Bush, just because the apology is in French? It's not like he's *named* in the apology. For all we know, the bag was made in 1994! ;)
Posted by: Zelda Pinwheel at April 6, 2004 1:12 PMYou realize of course, that since it's in French, it is actually Chirac they are talking about, non?
Googlebomb them to the top!
cowards
Hey moron, why would the French be apologizing in French to Americans? How many Americans do you know who speak French, maybe 10%-20% Oh and BTW, these bags are made in the USA.
Posted by: corwin at April 6, 2004 1:21 PM
Ah, the great brainwashed Republican hordes out here in full force. All it takes is for somebody to question the "fearless leader" (who is so fearless that needs handholding from the VP when he testifies in front of the 9/11 commission).
btw, Gore never said he invented the internet!
Posted by: Canuck at April 6, 2004 1:24 PMI never have heard of this company's products or name before.
And I live in WA where they reside.
Now I know why. They're more concerned with pushing liberal trash talk than pushing a quality product.
If I do see their stuff...I will never buy it.
Thanks for the heads up.
And Zelda...the reason we are assuming the label is about Bush is because if you goto this company's website and read around.....you will in short measure begin to smell that hard-to-miss sickening liberal stench
Posted by: RW at April 6, 2004 1:27 PMGore never said he invented the internet, and the Supreme Court didn't award Goerge Bush the presidency.
Both of these mis-representations of the facts have become memes. They are so oft-repeated that the truth begins to lose all meaning. Bush lied. Ted Kennedy caluculated his political future while Mary Jo Kopechne drowned. John Kerry had botox injections.
Life is a lot more complex than these bumper sticker quotations.
George Bush is a good man, who believes in some things that a lot of other people believe in. He isn't particullarly articluate, but that doesn't make him an idiot.
Al Gore is a smart man who noticed that some even smarter men were doing something rather cool. He might have overstated his involvement, or maybe he just didn't clarify his position quite qucikly enough.
Personal attacks and the mindless repetition of cliches only makes both sides seem rather simple...
Posted by: Enough already... at April 6, 2004 1:41 PMPerhaps neither the bagmakers nor some of their amused French label readers have stopped to consider what would still be happening to Iraquis criticising their president, or to Frenchman criticising the Nazi regime, if some "idiots" in the White House hadn't intervened at two critical points in history.
If their's is the current definition of "idiot", lets go elect more idiots.
...Sam
Ah Oui,
Remember when we bombed the sheet out of ze Greenpeace boat. Ah, we took zat radical scum and put zem in der place.
Oh but yes. Ze Greenpeace people don't fire back.
We should admire Prezident Bush. But what do we know, we like zee Jerry Lewis.
Ohh ho ho ho ooh la la.
Posted by: Good 'Ol France at April 6, 2004 2:03 PMIn light of the Madrid bombing, France has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide."
The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaboration."
bush is an idiot no matter how many colleges his family paid off to let him graduate. you've only got to listen to him trying to read what others have written for him. calling him a "puppet" is an insult to the cast of sesame st.
he is also a liar, hipocrite, fraud, criminal etc etc. the world has FAR more to fear from bush and his oil buddies than it does from "international terrorists"
at least 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were from saudi arabia but he invades afghanistan? does that not seem a little "odd" to you? do you think he may have had other motives? still, what do you retards care? in a recent survey, 98% of americans quetioned couldn't find afghanistan on a map despite it being labelled "afghanistan". then again, 95% of you couldn't find washington either lol.
he claims to have faith and to be a christian.
four words for you (nice simple single syllable ones too) - thou shall not kill. remember? it was written on that slab of stone god gave to moses. pretty easy to understand, even for americans no?
now that his buddies are "looking after" the oil interests in afghanistan and iraq do you think he'll let the troops come home? how many more families is he willing to destroy in the name of profit?
Posted by: A. Britishdude at April 6, 2004 2:06 PMFrench Tickler, Madrid is in SPAIN, not in France. Do you even know where Irak is? You know, that country far away that Bush is bombing the crap out off, for no apperant reason. And no, if you didn't know it, saddam had nothing to do with 9-11.
It's obviously a French-made product.
Posted by: NotDonkey at April 6, 2004 2:39 PMHey LUFF,
I soon as you can figure out how to spell "Irak", you can comment on where Madrid is.
If Canada was attacked, the US would raise its alert level too. So the Madrid-France connection makes sense.....well, to brain-laden folks it does.
Posted by: RW at April 6, 2004 2:44 PMGood uses for Al Franken.
Posted by: Franken_loser at April 6, 2004 2:49 PM
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/riboflavin/coulterfranken.jpg
Posted by: Franken_loser at April 6, 2004 2:50 PMOh foo on you all - I wore the tshirt proudly before it was hidden on a tag in french:
http://americanapologyshirt.com/
I will continue to wear it. Proudly.
For those of you who might yell:
-First, the statement is no lie; I voted for someone else. I'm fully entitled to express that.
-I thought the man was an idiot when he was governor of Texas and put a mentally retarded man into the electric chair. Just because he's the president now doesn't mean I suddenly have a sweeping change of opinion.
-I know a few people who graduated from both Harvard and Yale and as a matter of fact, one of them IS an idiot who needs hand-holding all the time. Just because you can memorize and parrot stuff back doesn't mean you can independently follow a line of reasoning.
-I am a firm and unswerving adherent to the Bill of Rights. This means I believe in the right of all people to carry guns and weapons at all times. Not a typically liberal stance, is it?
-I know quite a few Republicans who also think Bush is an idiot. It is not just a Democrat or liberal opinion.
-Whatever happened to the hunt for Osama, and why are there no progress reports?
I could say more, but I will leave it at that.
Posted by: toodleoo at April 6, 2004 2:53 PMSo... when do we see this image turning up on snopes.com?
Bets, anyone?
The french is broken.
Posted by: Steve at April 6, 2004 2:54 PMThat is a priceless sign--I bought one for myself, just on the basis of the label.
Shrub (A little bush) may be an idiot. However, the people in his administration are extremely clever--who else would be able to pull off a war with NO evidence, and shrug off that no evidence was found for WMD. Who else would be able to get away with millions in a non bid contract to their former company (Halliburton) to service that war?
Posted by: Deena at April 6, 2004 3:15 PM
Sry RW, I realized that I had spelled it wrongfully after I had posted the message, that's how we spell it in my country.
I want to make one thing clear. The people here that are saying bad things about Bush have nothing at all against americans as a people. In fact, we are saying this because we care about you. We are, for your own good, trying to make you see that Bush isn't a very good president and that your country deserve better. So please, for your own good and for world peace, don't vote for the republicans next election.
Posted by: Luff at April 6, 2004 3:21 PMDoug Gordon:
uhh, that's democracy.
Posted by: E at April 6, 2004 3:24 PM-I thought the man was an idiot when he was governor of Texas and put a mentally retarded man into the electric chair.Ummm... are you sure you don't mean Clinton? A retarded man was executed in Arkansas during the 92 election campaign. I believe Clinton went back just for the occasion. In any case the governor of Texas doesn't "put" anybody in the electric chair. The criminal justice system does. As I understand it, the Governor can't even pardon somebody unless a special committee recommends it. Maybe you should get these facts straight before questioning somebody else's intelligence.
As for why somebody would be ashamed of Chirac.. are you aware that Saddam's Osirak nuclear reactor was often referred to as the "O-Chirac" reactor? and do you know why? Don't worry, the French have plenty to be ashamed of.
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 3:41 PMAfter reading this I got happy but after reading the comments I just got so angry. Im sorry to say this, but you americans are pretty dumb.
If you really want a morron with NO skills what so ever for a leader of YOUR country, then sure have it your way, I don't care. But when this particular morron is trying to rule the rest of the world; I hope the people in USA understands that this might not be the smartest idea and this morron might be more suitable in a recangular cage than in an oval office.
Hey,
You know what ? I am French and I guess we share the same point of view right now about OUR president! lol
B.
Posted by: Brigitte at April 6, 2004 4:46 PMUR ALL DUMBFUCKS!!!!
Posted by: ger at April 6, 2004 4:50 PMI just love this!
As always, fun things end up being political forums, ok, discussing is good. But to see all these people trying to defend Bush? Honestly, cant you see youve been tricked? Yale and Harvard, probably went to the second one cause he didnt understand anything in the first. The US is a sick little country, with a government which everybody in Europe hates, probably the rest of the world too, there probably hasnt been a coup d'etat that the US havent been involved in. The fun thing is that Canadians that live so close to "Da US" has so much more to say then just "commy" "terrorist" and "unpatriotic", like you fellow Republicans, preferebly use them in a combo to create more effect. But i must admit that im rather shocked about how many Americans that can think for themselves, good job you guys.
Hey Firebrand, did you ever leave your TV dinner and reclining chair? You can't have seen a whole lot of the world outside of Alabama. Grow up...
Bub
Posted by: Bub at April 6, 2004 4:53 PMThis is not a French product ;) If the French had to say that their president is an idiot, they wouldn't say it that way, with these words. It is clearly a translation from the well-known "I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him."
"Don't worry, the French have plenty to be ashamed of."
You're right.
Just a little more thing: 82% of the French voted for Chirac, so might we say that "we didn't vote for him"? :))
Posted by: Nicolas at April 6, 2004 5:06 PMHaving been to the US i can only say: you have a great country over there. However George W. Bush is the worst thing that has happened to your country since... George Bush Sr. I won't bash him however, i actually think he seems like a quite funny guy, in a dumb way. But to make him the most powerful man in the world? What were you thinking?
Posted by: Ola (another Swede) at April 6, 2004 5:06 PMOla,
I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him.
Posted by: corwin at April 6, 2004 5:08 PMAhh, it's great to hear that some of the Americans haven't lost their minds yet. But it is frightening that a large number of Americans still support Bush.
A few comments on what is stated in the comments above:
1: Yes we are greatful that the Americans intervened in WWII, but it's probably the only time in history.
2: If it is Chirac or Bush on the label, does it really matter? This discussion is mostly about Bush anyway.
hmm, i think that's it. i won't read in this forum again, so if you have any comments on what i've written, mail me.
/From Sweden
Posted by: Daross at April 6, 2004 5:26 PM"name the thousands who died."
Here's a partial list for you:
http://www.pigstye.net/iraq/wd.php
Posted by: Sick of War at April 6, 2004 5:57 PMfuck that stupid puss for just writing it in french. That just shows how much of a pussy he really is
"However George W. Bush is the worst thing that has happened to your country since... George Bush Sr."
I think it's safe to say Ola doesn't have a clue what is or isn't the worst thing that has happened to my country. It never ceases to amaze me the incredible pomposity and pretension with which foreigners offer political analysis of a country they clearly know little about. Or perhaps you would care to engage in a discussion of the steel tariffs and what importance they will have on the President's electoral prospects in Pennsylvania? What's that? You don't know what I'm talking about? Exactly.
"with a government which everybody in Europe hates"
Really? Even everybody in Poland? Or did you not know that Poland is part of Europe? Just goes to show, most Europeans not only don't know much about America, they don't really know much about the rest of the world, either.
"there probably hasnt been a coup d'etat that the US havent been involved in"
Well, I'm pretty sure the US wasn't responsible for the various seizures of power by communists in Eastern Europe, but then, you probably don't like being reminded that it was the US that saved you from being crushed under that boot. Or do you even know? It all goes along with your amazing ignorance of history and foreign affairs.
"But when this particular morron is trying to rule the rest of the world"
Dammit! You're on to us! Why, it's just next week that George Bush was going to issue a proclamation ordering the French to bathe at least twice a week or face invasion. Then again, maybe that's absurd. Because, of course, he isn't trying to "rule the world". He isn't even trying to rule Iraq, he'll be quite happy to pull out once the country is stabilized. I find it very ironic that people who question George Bush's intelligence then proceed to make the most amazingly boneheaded statements to back up their argument. I'd suggest taking that log out of your own eye before trying to find other people's motes.
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 6:11 PM"Here's a partial list for you:"
I'm curious Sick_of_War, do you have a list of the millions killed as a result of Saddam's reign? Do you have a list of the thousands(at least) who would have died if he had stayed in power? Or do you only have compassion for people when it provides you with an excuse to hate George W. Bush?
Posted by: Bill at April 6, 2004 6:13 PMHey all you geniuses--
Before you get all self-righteous and say "Yes I do TOO love this country!" and stamp your feet when right-wingers claim otherwise, you might want to rethink following it up with a statement about how much you despise and fear the majority of Americans.
America *is* Americans. Remember?
If you display that kind of contempt and scorn for the average American citizen, and claim that only you and your enlightened elite are mentally capable of making decisions for "the rest of us", how is it that you're displaying any kind of respect for democracy, the Constitution, or the American people? Sounds like just the opposite to me.
The Eurotrash here keep claiming the US is a "sick little country". If you liberals love the US so much, why aren't you defending it against the likes of "Sweden (no polarbears)"?
Comments like these are a perfect reminder to me of why I stopped being liberal recently. I once thought it was the height of wit to bob along in a flood of common thought, contributing my own little "Bush is an idiot" line as though it's some deep insight that both illuminates me for the genius I am and establishes my bravery at expressing my courageous dissent in public. You guys want to know who's "brainwashed"? I submit to you that it's the people for whom logic doesn't enter the braincase.
Why, "Deena" came close to stumbling on insight, wondering how on earth the idiot Bush could have pulled off this sham of a war? Guys, how about applying Occam's Razor: why would any President, with any Cabinet, lie to the American public, the UN, and the world, with